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Hm... I definitely have some dependent traits. But some borderline traits, too, and a few NPD.
(I have a theory that AvPD, BPD and NPD are different expressions of the same core issue. They all circle around a very particular kind of shame, which is why we can all learn a lot from each other. I’ll have to do more research before I can figure out if DPD fits the same pattern though)
I believe I have both avpd and dpd, but it's kind of confusing for me. Do you think that's possible, and if so how do you think a person with both would behave (for comparison to myself)?
I think DPD is confusing for a lot of people, so don’t worry, you’re not alone in that. But AvPD and DPD is actually a really common co-morbidity, as you can see by the data at this link: here. (Beware of Out of the FOG in general, but it’s the only site that has statistical data on these things.) Plus, PDs are most co-morbid with other ones in the same cluster.
Someone with both AvPD and DPD would probably have a pronounced relationship with a “safe person”, I imagine. Who in this case would also be what I think the majority of the DPD community refers to as their “depended”. But while most people with DPD seek validation and dependence from many people, and rely on the opinions of others for whatever they do, I think people with AvPD as well would mainly focus on the one person, and be terrified of engaging with others, even if they wanted to.
But experiences will vary, as they always do. There are a myriad of experiences for any disorder, so matter what the clinical expectation is. Some people suffer from some symptoms more than others.
I hope that helps!
- Shinji
Part of Avoidant Personality Disorder is like … a failure to regulate social experiences. Like we don’t properly integrate or process what we feel.
Interacting with someone means feeling visible, connected, and like you are a self-among-selves: you’re existing as a person, in the presence of others.
Most folks, of course, can handle that effortlessly. They even seek it out.
People need social ‘background noise’ and social stimulation.
They reach out easily and often, just because it feels good to them.
Socializing gives them a sense of comfortable connectedness. And relief from isolation – they don’t “exist in a vacuum.”
It helps smooth out their inner experiences, thoughts and feelings.
But with AvPD, I don’t think we process social input normally.
The sensations of interacting don’t feel like how most people feel them. Being visible, connected, a person – it just seems dangerous and harsh.
And we can’t put these feelings into context.
We can’t step back from them, or control how much they affect us.
We don’t have the ability to regulate what we’re experiencing.
That means nearly all social stimuli are negative to us, whether friend or foe. Being-in-contact-with-people is all it takes to distress us.
It’s overwhelming and de-stabilizing.
It provokes more big feelings, and reactions we don’t feel safe facing.
Our inner experience is turned into chaos.
We’re left feeling helpless, afraid, inexplicably ashamed.
We want positive connection. But we usually end up with painful chaos instead.
And it’s a thousand times worse if you’re having an actually negative encounter, like facing someone who’s angry or criticizing you.
Social perfectionism is about trying to escape this:
“I might be able to enjoy this thing… but only if nothing goes wrong ever.”
Perfectionism is a great misdirect. Because “every possible problem” is not the issue that needs solving.
What we need to do, is learn how to experience social input in a positive way. And un-learn all the bad habits that have grown instead.
(more here!)
Avoidance as social perfectionism.
“This relationship will be doomed from the start … so there’s no point trying to make friends.”
“I’ll inevitably say stuff wrong and make things awkward … so there’s no point in starting a conversation.”
“I might be having a good day, but I won’t always be energetic, clever and likable … so there’s no point in reaching out.”
These examples share some common links:
negative self-esteem
avoidance of anxiety/discomfort
seeking control and certainty
trying to meet others’ expectations, or avoid disappointing them
Thoughts, anybody?
(more here!)
Part of Avoidant Personality Disorder is like ... a failure to regulate social experiences. Like we don’t properly integrate or process what we feel.
Interacting with someone means feeling visible, connected, and like you are a self-among-selves: you’re existing as a person, in the presence of others.
Most folks, of course, can handle that effortlessly. They even seek it out.
People need social ‘background noise’ and social stimulation.
They reach out easily and often, just because it feels good to them.
Socializing gives them a sense of comfortable connectedness. And relief from isolation -- they don’t “exist in a vacuum.”
It helps smooth out their inner experiences, thoughts and feelings.
But with AvPD, I don’t think we process social input normally.
The sensations of interacting don’t feel like how most people feel them. Being visible, connected, a person -- it just seems dangerous and harsh.
And we can’t put these feelings into context.
We can’t step back from them, or control how much they affect us.
We don’t have the ability to regulate what we’re experiencing.
That means nearly all social stimuli are negative to us, whether friend or foe. Being-in-contact-with-people is all it takes to distress us.
It’s overwhelming and de-stabilizing.
It provokes more big feelings, and reactions we don’t feel safe facing.
Our inner experience is turned into chaos.
We’re left feeling helpless, afraid, inexplicably ashamed.
We want positive connection. But we usually end up with painful chaos instead.
And it’s a thousand times worse if you’re having an actually negative encounter, like facing someone who’s angry or criticizing you.
Social perfectionism is about trying to escape this:
“I might be able to enjoy this thing... but only if nothing goes wrong ever.”
Perfectionism is a great misdirect. Because “every possible problem” is not the issue that needs solving.
What we need to do, is learn how to experience social input in a positive way. And un-learn all the bad habits that have grown instead.
(more here!)
Avoidance as social perfectionism.
“This relationship will be doomed from the start ... so there’s no point trying to make friends.”
“I’ll inevitably say stuff wrong and make things awkward ... so there’s no point in starting a conversation.”
“I might be having a good day, but I won’t always be energetic, clever and likable ... so there’s no point in reaching out.”
These examples share some common links:
negative self-esteem
avoidance of anxiety/discomfort
seeking control and certainty
trying to meet others’ expectations, or avoid disappointing them
Thoughts, anybody?
(more here!)