Astarion Ancunin - Blog Posts

Astarion and Learned Cruelty

Spoilers for all of Astarion’s story through all acts of BG3. As always, this is all just my interpretation of the character. Feel free to disagree. 

I love the writing choice to make Astarion genuinely immoral at first. They could have easily pulled the overdone trope of "I only pretend to be evil because I'm traumatized. I'm really just a sad little guy who wouldn’t hurt anyone". Now I do believe his behavior is a direct result of his trauma, but I'll get to that in a minute. The point is that he does genuinely relish in violence, although his actions will be swayed by whichever moral direction the player decides to go. But he does enjoy combat, spilling blood, and even some more cruel and unusual things. However, what makes this so compelling and narratively rich is that this is a learned mindset.

I think that a lot of people don't acknowledge that going into act 1, Astarion has just come out of a situation where he was quite literally forced to participate in horrific crimes, with severe consequences if he refused. That absolutely does not excuse the fact that he's okay with if not outright enthusiastic about murder, but we do see that he was not always this way (e.g., he tried at least once to let a target go because he couldn't bring himself to take them to Cazador). I just think it's worth acknowledging that that mindset was the product of centuries of torment and active overt and covert conditioning. He became who Cazador wanted him to be; who he had to be in order to survive. Astarion and Karlach are two sides of a coin in this regard, in that they represent opposite responses to trauma and loss of autonomy. Karlach was forced into martial servitude, which in my opinion explains why she's still kind of bloodthirsty even though she's such a good and kind person bent on protecting others. She's shaped by the role she was forced into, and it's the same with Astarion. Again, not to say he isn't morally dubious, but there's a big difference between someone evil and someone who was never allowed to be "good" suddenly being thrust back into freedom and forced to figure things out.

To a degree, I do also think that his over-the-top declarations of his love for violence are another piece of his mask. Just like with his feigned hedonism and sexual forwardness, he's trying to hold power over people by controlling their perception of him (as well as his own self-perception). He's holding a big sign that says "I'm selfish and evil, and you shouldn't like me unless you are too", when really he's not anywhere near as selfish and evil as he pretends to be. He does this in part to keep people at arm's length, but also to convince himself; to craft his own reality wherein he is the person he needs to be to get through this situation. His worldview has been warped to see domination and control as synonymous with strength, and so he's being strong in the way he knows how. As the story progresses with a good player on his side, he's beginning to learn how to be something better. And that's why it takes time: because he's unlearning 200 years of conditioning and survival instincts.

It's worth talking about that it's not unheard of for abusers to force victims to participate in the abuse of others. I think that representing that experience in this game is important and valuable. We should all walk the line between holding these kinds of survivors accountable for what is appropriate, and to offer them oceans of understanding and empathy for them over what they were forced into. Even if Astarion weren't magically forced to do Cazador's bidding, I hope that we all could still understand the power that abusers hold over their victims, empathize with him, and see that those actions were an extension of Cazador, not himself.

Official D&D definitions of "evil" aside, I don't think he's ever truly evil unless he goes down the evil route with the player and/or ascends (Ascended Astarion is a whole other can of worms I’m not going to get into in this post). By the end of the spawn storyline, Astarion does have a lot more concern and care for others, and most importantly, he takes responsibility. To me, that shows profound strength and goodness. He's never a saint, but in my opinion he's never really evil, either. He's still learning how to live in a world where he doesn't need to be cruel in order to survive. 

Concerning the early access backstory about him being a "corrupt magistrate", it's up to the individual how to headcanon that information. Personally, I think he was probably a little self-interested, but not evil by any means. I think he was probably just a pretty normal person before Cazador, not predisposed to cruelty.

In summary, I think it’s important to talk about what makes people “bad”, especially in the context of the cycle of abuse and victimization. In Astarion’s case, much of his taste for cruelty came from implicit conditioning over his years of being forced to hurt others. There are a number of lines from him during the dungeon/crypt sequence where he keeps insisting, defensively and desperately, that he didn’t have a choice in bringing victims back to Cazador. That it was all on his orders and he couldn’t say no. This might come across to some as him trying to shirk blame, but the thing is… he’s right. He didn't have a choice, other than death, but I think Cazador would deny him even that. He wanted to make his spawn into obedient tools, but also to break them. To make them an extension of his own monstrous cruelty. But in the end, Astarion takes responsibility as best he can, and begins to forgive himself for being a part of Cazador’s evil. This is part of what makes the line “I am so much more than what you made me” so powerful.

Just a thought on Astarion

Obsessed with how Astarion is "cursed to walk in the shadows forever" but his character has celestial motifs. He notably has very pale skin and silvery white hair, obviously, his name has the word star in it (argue over the linguistic origins of his name all you want, it still has star vibes), and the flowers on his grave look like stars as well. His story is about him saving himself, and the fact that he has iconography representing light in his endless night is beautiful actually.

I completely agree with a lot of this, and thank you for bringing up some great points.

I agree that having meta knowledge of his character does change the experience, and as someone who is very into roleplaying in this game, I absolutely agree that having him tell the player about this specific trauma in act 2 could be a shock. On my first (blind) playthrough I just personally felt like something was off from early on in the way he spoke about sex, especially in the scene in the forest beforehand, as well as all the over-the-top hedonistic comments he makes so often. Even when I had no idea about his past, it felt like he was putting on a performance rather than sincerely wanting intimacy, and that's a big part of why I didn't want to go through with the sex on my first playthrough; something just felt wrong about it from how he was acting even though I didn't know why. (this was just how I experienced things). I only had the meta knowledge from a non-spoiler guide that this was the only way to initiate his romance.

I do love his story as it plays out in the game with the sex scene happening in act 1, and I do understand why people think that's the best way to tell his story. I just was trying to say that the integrity of his arc and the portrayal of his specific trauma responses are able to be conveyed just as strongly without the sex actually happening. It's just different. I DO love the fact that the way Astarion sets the boundary about not wanting to have sex for a while is SO important in the context of having slept together before. He's saying "I consented to this in the past, but now I don't" and that's *such* an important example of healthy communication and boundary-drawing that I LOVE that was portrayed in this game.

The whole unwarranted guilt over "not realizing sooner" is also such an important representation of reality as well and I love that you acknowledged it. Again, I just think that this feeling wouldn't be exclusive to having slept with him.

Also I totally agree about the blood drinking thing. Given how significant and intimate an act it would be in the context of their relationship, I wish there was a scene where we could tell him that we're okay with him drinking our blood in a completely non-sexual way.

TLDR: I agree with and very much appreciate this response, I just think that there are multiple ways his story can be told that are just as true to the character. Also that I just found it odd that this game goes to such lengths to prioritize the player's choices and freedom, but this in particular feels very rigid when it doesn't need to be. Anyway this is all just my opinions, and I just like talking about this character!

My one major issue within Astarion's romance storyline (spoilers)

TLDR: player shouldn't have to sleep with him in act one to initiate the romance.

(also please correct me if I'm wrong about this being the way the romance triggers. All the information I found said that the act 1 intimacy scene is necessary)

First of all, this just locks you out of romancing him unless you’re a very particular kind of person. On my playthrough, my character is not at all the type to sleep with him casually, but I went through with it because I very badly wanted to see his romance storyline. 

So let’s examine what leads up to the scene. Astarion, upon meeting the player, recognizes power in them and thus someone who can help protect him. He comes up with his “nice, simple plan” to seduce the player in order to get them to trust and care for him. This makes complete sense for his character, as he sees his main and perhaps only source of value being what he can offer physically. It’s what he knows how to do, and so in this crisis situation, of course it’s what he defaults to. The fact that he propositions the player is not what I have a problem with. It’s the fact that they have to say yes in order to further the romance, or else they’re locked out of it. 

On a practical level, I can understand what the thought process behind this might have been. Having a character proposition the player, being turned down, and then coming onto them again in the future might make them come off as a pest, which can make a character majorly unlikable. However I would argue this can be worked around because it is made very clear that the first encounter with him is meant to be a purely casual intimacy. Having a confession scene later where he proposes something more sincere would feel completely different, offering something new rather than not taking no for an answer. 

But the game forces you to accept his offer if you want to further the romance. This leaves the player in an uncomfortable position no matter what. There are two intimacy scenes possible in act one, the first being his high approval scene that can trigger whenever, where he makes the offer and the player can choose. Skipping this one does not lock you out of the romance IF you do sleep with him at the Teifling party afterward (if I’m not mistaken). The Tiefling party version of the scene is much much better if you care about him as a person, in my opinion, because he keeps the fact that he sees it as a transaction to himself. In the high approval scene, he outright says, albeit flirtatiously, that this is a reward for letting him drink your blood. Him presenting the encounter that way feels very icky if you say yes. So while it’s very in-character and a very honest and raw portrayal of how his trauma has affected him, it leaves the player in a bad position. 

Now, this plot point is crucial to his overall story, yes. He needs to initiate this kind of pandering to the player character, trying to seduce them and get their trust and loyalty. My argument is that this can be done *without* the sex scene. If I were to rewrite this scene, I would have it that he invites the character to the woods after the party in a more ambiguous way unless you yourself bring up the topic of sex. Then, when you’re both there having your private conversation, you can choose to decline his advances. He could become puzzled and maybe a little annoyed and say something like “why did you come here, then?”. The player could then have the option to respond with “I wanted to get to know you better” or something. This could be a really sweet and heartbreaking moment to look back on after you learn more about him. Give him a genuine moment of confusion in this scene, because it challenges what he thought about himself and other people; someone doesn't want him just for his body, and they also want to get to know him as a person. This would probably be a confusing and difficult feeling for him. He’d mask it quickly, of course, but still. Then, there could be a nice moment between them where they just have a cute conversation about anything. Maybe they could even just make this scene into a slightly different version of his scars scene the morning after. He showed up shirtless after all, so the player could go on to ask him about that and it could be a wholesome bonding moment. This would allow the player to show interest in him without it being explicitly sexual, but also not locking you out of the romance route with him. Also it’s asexual friendly. On a narrative and emotional level, this serves basically the exact same purpose as the sex scene(s), with the exception of the regret and moral greyness, which I think the player should be able to avoid anyway if they choose. Especially upon replays, this forces the player to engage in something they know is not an enjoyable experience for him, in order to trigger his romance storyline, which I think is kind of wrong. 

Interesting point here, though: If you’re playing as origin Karlach, then you can't sleep with him at first without, you know, burning him to a crisp. The romance plays out the same otherwise, PROVING MY POINT that it’s not necessary. In this version of events, they just “talk and fall asleep”. This would be exactly what I wanted. I just really wish this were an option in any other case.

I'm too demisexual for this.

What I like about the Dryad Test scene (Astarion romance spoilers)

So I haven't done any other character's romance yet, but I want to talk about the brilliance of Astarion's version of the “romance test” scene in the circus. While I do think it was a missed opportunity to show a little more vulnerable reaction when you first call him forward to do the test (calling him the "one you love"), before he covers it up with his usual mask, I think this is a beautifully subtle scene overall. Which is impressive given how indulgent it is. The whole premise is that you full well know the true answers to the questions, but if you want to make him happy and comfortable, you wont give them. He’s clearly uncomfortable with you bringing up personal information in front of an audience, even if it’s to correctly answer the question. He obviously isn’t taking the test seriously at all, and is doing it more to just have fun and mess around. As much as I adore sincerity, this scene is just so in-character for Astarion I can't be mad at it. You’re showing him how well you know him *by* answering incorrectly, because you know *that’s* what he wants. You're showing that you know him, and you don't need to prove it. While it would have been fun and cute to just have a little moment here that plays right into the dryad's game without any twists, this execution of the scene suits Astarion's current emotional state so much better, and makes it more engaging. The story doesn't just pander to the player, no matter how indulgent Astarion seems as a character. He’s imperfect and struggling a lot, and the player needs genuine patience to see the real him in those rare moments when he lets the mask fall.

He’s been making some very slow changes throughout the game up to this point, and he’s still grappling with that. It’s obvious that even he doesn't really understand or want to face his feelings and how he’s changed, as he’s unwilling to even put a label on his relationship with the player character at this point. He’s all about using his mask as a shield, and so the times we’ve seen behind it have been insanely vulnerable by his standards; private moments meant to stay between the two of you. So of course he wouldn't like it if you just bring up his deepest feelings in a public setting all for some silly carnival activity. He’s also very much the type to say: “like I need a dryad to tell me how I feel”, when prompted with the game in the first place. He probably only agreed because the player wanted to, and he wanted to just have a bit of a laugh. It’s not that he doesn't have genuine feelings for the character, but rather that he has no clue how to handle them. He’s probably holding back a lot at this point in the story, and it probably scares him that he’s getting so attached to someone. Someone that could be taken from him. He probably sees that as a weakness that Cazdor could exploit to hurt him even more, and so his  natural instinct would be to keep everything close to his chest. Orin’s line about Gortash using our connection as a noose by which to hang us probably illustrates his fears perfectly. It’s scary when you have feelings beyond your control, and given that he probably hasn't felt this way about someone in as long as he can remember, if ever, he’s probably even more unnerved. This subtle internal struggle is perfectly illustrated in this scene. At this point in the story overall, he’s confused, on edge, afraid, angry, but also maybe the slightest bit hopeful for the first time in a long time, because of the player. 

The best part is that his instincts about not wanting his personal information shared with a stranger is justified, as Orin shows up to ruin the fun. Apparently in early versions of the game, its at this point that she would kidnap the player’s romanced companion, but apparently play testers hated that (this is just what I've heard). It would be so neat, even though I'd panic and drop everything to hunt her down. That sinking feeling when Orin reveals herself is only magnified if you answer the “true” options during the love test, because now one of our greatest enemies has critical information that could be used to hurt our loved one. 

Anyway I just love how subversive this scene is because of who Astarion is as a person, and how it illustrates the unique bond he has with the player character. His reactions are so cute when you give answers that he likes (like saying what he wants most is revenge, or that most things fear *him*, actually). This is a rare moment when it seems like he's actually having fun. It's just two idiots in love messing around, and that's important.

(This is all just my interpretation. Feel free to disagree)

BG3 has rotten my brain so much that this color palate makes me emotional help

iykyk

Just some of my finest amateur Astarion screenshots that make me laugh

He's always either a literal model, offended, or a weirdo. I love him.

The idea of Astarion being a magistrate is so funny to me because the Astarion we know today would NOT be professional about it. He'd be scoffing and rolling his eyes at people and making snarky comments about their crimes before sending them to the dungeons every time. The man would not keep his opinions to himself.

Thoughts on the post-Halsin-confession scene (Astarion romance spoilers)

Preface: this is coming from the perspective of my own playthrough wherein I got this scene early act 3. I don't know if it can trigger in act 2 or not, so let me know, as that would change some of the details. Either way, I think the main point still stands. Also this is all just my headcanon but it's based off of canon info)

Unpopular opinion(maybe?) /headcanon but in my opinion, Astarion is not okay during the “fReeDoM oF nAtuRE's gIFts” conversation after Halsin's confession. He’s laughing and acting way too flippant for it to come across like he’s truly okay with what is being proposed. Not to say he’s against a poly relationship in general, but I think that, at point in his relationship with the player character, he’s kind of panicking about being replaced but doesn't know how to say that he’s not comfortable with them spending the night with Halsin. It kind of reminds me of the “I didn't know how to say no” scene (obviously not the same situation or stakes, I'm just saying that there’s a precedent for him lying about his feelings and needs in order to please the player character and not show vulnerability). PLUS, after he asks if the reason you’re interested in someone else is because he set that boundary about intimacy back in Moonrise (and its implied you haven't been intimate since then),  if you respond with “gods, I don't want you to even think that”, he IMMEDIATELY backpedals like: “oh, of course, I knew that. It was a joke. Doesn't matter to me. I’m very chill right now”. 

Given everything we know about him, at this point in the story, he basically feels like he contributes very little to this relationship, and is insecure about the fact that he can't even offer the one thing he feels like he’s good for. Seeing the player seek intimacy somewhere else, even if they say they want to be with him too, probably feels like a knife to the heart (again, even if he’s not opposed to polyamory in general). The bottom line is that regardless of how the relationship turns out, I don't think he is doing okay at all at this point. 

Note: I don't actually know what happens/ if you can get this scene after facing Cazador. I got the scene early in act 3, personally. Spawn Astarion would be in a much better emotional space then, and so I think he might genuinely be comfortable with opening the relationship to Halsin at that point, potentially. Ascended Astarion is another issue entirely.

He's never done anything wrong, ever, in his entire life, actually

My one major issue within Astarion's romance storyline (spoilers)

TLDR: player shouldn't have to sleep with him in act one to initiate the romance.

(also please correct me if I'm wrong about this being the way the romance triggers. All the information I found said that the act 1 intimacy scene is necessary)

First of all, this just locks you out of romancing him unless you’re a very particular kind of person. On my playthrough, my character is not at all the type to sleep with him casually, but I went through with it because I very badly wanted to see his romance storyline. 

So let’s examine what leads up to the scene. Astarion, upon meeting the player, recognizes power in them and thus someone who can help protect him. He comes up with his “nice, simple plan” to seduce the player in order to get them to trust and care for him. This makes complete sense for his character, as he sees his main and perhaps only source of value being what he can offer physically. It’s what he knows how to do, and so in this crisis situation, of course it’s what he defaults to. The fact that he propositions the player is not what I have a problem with. It’s the fact that they have to say yes in order to further the romance, or else they’re locked out of it. 

On a practical level, I can understand what the thought process behind this might have been. Having a character proposition the player, being turned down, and then coming onto them again in the future might make them come off as a pest, which can make a character majorly unlikable. However I would argue this can be worked around because it is made very clear that the first encounter with him is meant to be a purely casual intimacy. Having a confession scene later where he proposes something more sincere would feel completely different, offering something new rather than not taking no for an answer. 

But the game forces you to accept his offer if you want to further the romance. This leaves the player in an uncomfortable position no matter what. There are two intimacy scenes possible in act one, the first being his high approval scene that can trigger whenever, where he makes the offer and the player can choose. Skipping this one does not lock you out of the romance IF you do sleep with him at the Teifling party afterward (if I’m not mistaken). The Tiefling party version of the scene is much much better if you care about him as a person, in my opinion, because he keeps the fact that he sees it as a transaction to himself. In the high approval scene, he outright says, albeit flirtatiously, that this is a reward for letting him drink your blood. Him presenting the encounter that way feels very icky if you say yes. So while it’s very in-character and a very honest and raw portrayal of how his trauma has affected him, it leaves the player in a bad position. 

Now, this plot point is crucial to his overall story, yes. He needs to initiate this kind of pandering to the player character, trying to seduce them and get their trust and loyalty. My argument is that this can be done *without* the sex scene. If I were to rewrite this scene, I would have it that he invites the character to the woods after the party in a more ambiguous way unless you yourself bring up the topic of sex. Then, when you’re both there having your private conversation, you can choose to decline his advances. He could become puzzled and maybe a little annoyed and say something like “why did you come here, then?”. The player could then have the option to respond with “I wanted to get to know you better” or something. This could be a really sweet and heartbreaking moment to look back on after you learn more about him. Give him a genuine moment of confusion in this scene, because it challenges what he thought about himself and other people; someone doesn't want him just for his body, and they also want to get to know him as a person. This would probably be a confusing and difficult feeling for him. He’d mask it quickly, of course, but still. Then, there could be a nice moment between them where they just have a cute conversation about anything. Maybe they could even just make this scene into a slightly different version of his scars scene the morning after. He showed up shirtless after all, so the player could go on to ask him about that and it could be a wholesome bonding moment. This would allow the player to show interest in him without it being explicitly sexual, but also not locking you out of the romance route with him. Also it’s asexual friendly. On a narrative and emotional level, this serves basically the exact same purpose as the sex scene(s), with the exception of the regret and moral greyness, which I think the player should be able to avoid anyway if they choose. Especially upon replays, this forces the player to engage in something they know is not an enjoyable experience for him, in order to trigger his romance storyline, which I think is kind of wrong. 

Interesting point here, though: If you’re playing as origin Karlach, then you can't sleep with him at first without, you know, burning him to a crisp. The romance plays out the same otherwise, PROVING MY POINT that it’s not necessary. In this version of events, they just “talk and fall asleep”. This would be exactly what I wanted. I just really wish this were an option in any other case.

I'm too demisexual for this.

Just me losing my mind over Astarion's storyline (spoilers)

Playing bg3 for the first time and literally had to take a few days off playing after the Cazador fight and the graveyard scene just to emotionally process because I was a wreck. Thought I was safe, only to log back on, talk to Astarion, and get the conversation where he’s starting to heal and he’s smiling so genuinely and then pulls out the “this is a gift, you know” callback line. Had to take another day off because I was sobbing again I cannot put into words what this character has done to my brain chemistry. Having the time of my life with this game. Very normal and fine

its like he was made just to ruin me

Ugh i couldn't watch stream live, so i'm waiting for HighRollersDnd to upload it :"") Here, have a little sketch of our Little Star, meanwhile i think i'll draw out some things from streams...

I was just finishing that as i learned that Larian changed His Majesty model... Like why, he was perfect as a sphynx cat :<

Well, this could be also a Steelclaw... Both of them would definitely find a place in Astarion's heart 🐱💖

radiant

(available as a phone wallpaper on my patreon)

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