When You Realize Every Action You’ve Ever Taken Has Been To Make Sure You Occupy As Little Space In

This is definitely something I experience, and I identify with AvPD very strongly.

I also had obvious social anxiety before I even knew about AvPD. To me, it’s pretty easy to differentiate at this point, because “social anxiety” feels, you know, like anxiety, but my AvPD stuff feels like shame, and the fear of shame.

I experience it like:

social anxiety =

physical tense buzzing wariness

imagining the Bad Thing happening (messing up, being laughed at, humiliated)

catastrophizing

panicky

wanting to escape the danger.

(The danger is a thing Outside of me, which I can be safe from as long as I get out of this situation.)

AvPD moments =

a cold knot of sick shame in my stomach

feeling exposed, seen, defenseless, inexcusable

not having any shields or masks left to hide behind

wanting to flee and be alone / unseen, or

to disappear (dissociate) and be invisible.

(The danger is a thing Inside of me, which I can’t escape ever because it is Me, but which I can avoid having to face as long as I get out of this situation.)

So, the self esteem tug-of-war.

For me, it’s because although I started from a point of being totally incapacitated by AvPD symptoms/self hatred/etc, I’ve spent years rebuilding my self-esteem and creating a sense of who I am. So on good days, I believe in the thing I’ve spent so much time carefully growing – the feeling that I’m an OK person, that I’m likable, that I deserve to have a full life and to enjoy things. (Notice, when I’m in this healthy mindset, I’m not even thinking about “whether other people can see me/how they will judge me”.)

Then sometimes I will be in a lower mood, or something will trigger me into old/negative thought patterns, and I’ll find myself spiraling in “I’m so terrible,” and “any kindness/positivity from others is meaningless, for A, B, or C reasons,“ and “I will be revealed to be Horrible sooner or later, and then I’ll lose every positive relationship I have.”

So I definitely think it is possible to believe you’re worthy and unworthy at almost-the-same-time. Having this kind of push-pull struggle between feelings of adequacy and inadequacy is entirely possible, and it’s probably very normal if you’re in the process of recovering from poor self esteem.

(1) hi, i have really severe social anxiety and i've been wondering if it's possible i actually have avpd. i saw the ask about self-esteem and i kind of related but kind of not if that makes sense? i honestly don't know how i would rate my self esteem. i think i'm a person of worth who is intelligent and talented but i'm always terribly worried that i'm lying to myself and my perceived self is just an ideal i've created and i'm not actually as smart or funny or interesting as i'd like to think.

(2) i guess to rephrase, i think every life has inherent value and that logically applies to my own life, and i have a sense of identity, but i’m scared that it isn’t real. and as ridiculous as it sounds, i’m insecure that this carries into my relationships with other people as well. like with my boyfriend, i worry that i’ve fooled myself into thinking i’m interesting and maybe i’ve somehow managed to fool him, too. i guess i’m wondering if this sounds characteristic of avpd to you at all?

Hey.

It’s hard to say whether this sounds like AvPD or not because low self-esteem can exist with almost any mental illness, or even without it. It can exist with Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD) and it can exist with AvPD. I can’t give you an answer to that, unfortunately.

I would recommend you have a read through the links on our Resources page, but specifically these two links:

AvPD Criteria (in-depth). 

 AvPD or Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD)- Avoidance (forum). 

These should help give you a better understanding and should help you determine whether you have AvPD or SAD. Keep in mind though, you can have both. SAD is very common with in people with AvPD. 

I know personally, my SAD was a pre-cursor for my AvPD. 

- Jay. 

It ends or it doesn’t. That’s what you say. That’s how you get through it. The tunnel, the night, the pain, the love. It ends or it doesn’t. If the sun never comes up, you find a way to live without it. If they don’t come back, you sleep in the middle of the bed, learn how to make enough coffee for yourself alone. Adapt. Adjust. It ends or it doesn’t. It ends or it doesn’t. We do not perish.

Caitlyn Siehl (via wordsnquotes)

I’ve always struggled with social anxiety and self-confidence in different areas. It waxes and wanes in amplitude, but it’s always there. This affects my ability to do research as I struggle to do things like use the phone, send emails asking people to do things in a timely fashion, and finish work due to perfectionism.  It was really bad a couple of years ago, during my PhD. We had official annual meetings with a member of staff to check on progress back then, which were a good idea but terrified the students. I always had mine with a member of faculty a lot of people are scared of. I’m not sure why, maybe because their courses were very difficult and they was a strict marker? I’d heard they’d mellowed over the years so maybe, like a fear of the dark, students’ wariness passed down the generations.  Whatever the reason, I’d never been scared of them, and always saw them as a fair mind when it came to assessing my progress. I wouldn’t believe myself or my friends mostly, but I’d trust them to tell the truth. On my last meeting they knew I wasn’t very well. I always cried in these meetings through stress/lifting of stress, so true to form the box of tissues were ready and they offered me a fruit tea. I had the summer fruits. It was really sweet and calming, and I didn’t need the tissues that year. We spoke at length about why I was struggling within myself when my work seemed perfectly fine, even really good in places. And we got talking about anxiety when not at work. Turns out both of us have similar social anxiety problems! We both struggle to go in a shop with no or few other customers, because we hate being watched by staff. It’s really specific but I bet it’s common haha. We both hate using the phone, even ordering take away is difficult! Maybe this is why I wasn’t scared of them?  At any rate, it was great to know I wasn’t alone, here was a full professor with the same problems I have, still doing science! But, I asked, how do you do it? How did you get this high up the ladder and not quit, or not take it out on yourself? How are you not anxious all the time? Oh, I am anxious, they said. I was really bad for years. Wouldn’t use the phone at all. But then I was made Head of Department.  That’s terrifying! What did you do? Well I was still anxious, about using the phone for example. But I realised, the Head of Department uses the phone to call people to get things sorted quickly. And at the moment, I’m Head of Department. That’s the hat I’m wearing. The Head of Department picks up the phone and the Head of Department speaks to people to Get Things Done. That’s a role I’m performing, that’s all, and people expect me to be the Head of Department. And it helped, and now I can use the phone because I’m used to it.  Hearing them say that was a bit of an epiphany. They weren’t saying “just suck it up”, it’s a complete reframing of the interaction. 

YOU might not like using the telephone to ask so-and-so to do something, but Scientist-In-Charge-Of-Making-This-Thing-Work DOES call Collaborators to remind them, and then Collaborators can respond that they forgot, or they have it scheduled in for next week, because it’s their role to do something. 

YOU might be scared of going into that shop, but a Potential Customer does go into shops and look around. Potential Customer might be asked by Sales Rep whether they need help, and Potential Customer can say just browsing. Sales Rep may watch Potential Customer browse, but that’s okay, because they’re waiting to perform their role. And when Potential Customer leaves the shop, they aren’t that role anymore, back to self. Interaction done. 

YOU might not want to email that person to ask them for a reference, BUT a Final Year Student DOES send the email, because part of their role is to get a reference at the end. And the person receiving the email also has a role, and that is Someone Who Sometimes Gets Reference Requests, that they can response Yes or No to. Then Final Year Student can get their reference about Final Year Student or can move on to someone else. Interaction over. Slate clean. Sometimes we get so caught up we forget that many of the things we do are divorced from our own self, and we worry about judgements from other people. But in a lot of our interactions, especially at work or school, we have a set of roles and rules. When it’s getting really hard for me to do things like email, phone, or go somewhere, it helps me to think of that Professor’s first day as Head of Department, them sitting there with that weight of responsibility and internally screaming as they pick up the phone the first time, because that’s what Head of Departments do. If they can do it and normalise it, I know I can too. One day! :) 

there’s a post in my queue about how to have productive arguments (with your parents, even)

and it got me thinking,

dealing with conflict, and talking to people who (perhaps by definition) disagree with you ... is so so hard and so scary

but / and

it gets so much more ... doable, after you’ve had a few successful experiences.

or even observed someone else succeed in standing up for themselves a few times

it becomes conceivable.

and (this is a thing I’m not sure I can put into words)

realizing, even after the fact, even in a very limited way, that you can make things happen

or that you can change things

or that you can take something that has been a looming, oppressive, guilt-ridden Problem in your Life, and turn it into something that is resolved and stable and no longer a source of stress every day

....... is super empowering. (because! literally! you have power! wow, wait, for real.)

so. yes. just putting this out there:

other ways to experience conflict exist

and, even if you never become fully comfortable disagreeing (or confronting or arguing) with someone,

the way that it currently feels to you (overwhelming, terrifying, surrender-inducing)

is not necessarily the way that it will always feel.

(because, we learn! we grow! and new people teach us new things: new relationships, new ways of being, & of feeling.)

things that are hard, are sometimes still worth doing.

because sometimes you can actually influence what happens ... and not be forced to simply tolerate & adapt to how Everyone Else decides it should be.

it is OK to have opinions! and disagree! it is OK to want things. it is OK to show up, and be visible.

even if in the past, you have learned otherwise, I just want to say:

this is your life, and you are allowed to exist in it.

ohh my gosh the notes today?! and the nice comments and messages?! everything is so Meaningful and real, y’all are too sweet, honestly! aaaah avoidants <3

#Coping with coronavirus and dissociation

The following recommendations might be very basic, but I find they’ve been helping me to stay on track. I have been having difficulties with DID and complex PTSD symptoms and almost ended up kind of losing touch with reality in certain ways because of feeling so far away from the world but also not wanting to interact with ‘the outside.’ Things got pretty rough during the cold months in my country when winter storms and frigid temperatures kept everyone indoors and miserable, which made me withdraw from friends even though I was thinking of them and wanting to see them. It was like the pandemic was inspiring me to disappear, which was nice at first but soon became problematic as my issues with depression, anxiety, etc. went haywire. I had to come up with some fundamentals to figure out how to cope through it all.

I’ve recently taken up photography, using solitary adventuring to explore and contemplate or even meditate while snapping shots of the world around me. It’s also turned into an exercise for mindfulness, which has been helpful especially as summertime hit. Since photography is something that can be done pretty easily with company and while physical distancing, I’ve been visiting with friends within my ‘social bubble’ of less than 10 people, keeping it safe and relaxed as I’ve incorporated visits on a weekly basis to add some socializing to my routine.

Speaking of routines, the ones I’ve fallen back on daily have made me feel more stable and in control on multiple levels. Sometimes it’s difficult to keep from working all of the time or becoming lost in never ending creative projects and burning out, so I’ve also taken the time to do yoga, which has given me the opportunity to meditate on how I can be there for others and perform acts of kindness, support, and compassion while also figuring out how to care for myself and tweak my perception so as to avoid becoming lost in cognitive distortions that would certainly make things worse.

Though routine is a big source of comfort, I also find that it’s been equally important to have things to look forward to, certain moments with friends and loved ones that seem to be given more meaning in the disconnect. One thing that has happened recently, which has been a source of comfort and fun for both my partner and I, has been the adoption of a young kitten. I feel like spending time with pets can be as comforting as spending time with people and has helped me find a balance when it comes to lingering for too long in front of screens.

Last but not least, a huge source of stability has been to spend a decent amount of time outside, soaking in a bit of light and enjoying the fresh air, or even stepping out to enjoy the cooling freshness of a rainy day. We might not be able to spend time up close with friends, but it can be very helpful to connect with nature however and whenever possible.

It might sometimes feel easier to withdraw and disappear, but that line of thinking can be pretty misleading and counterproductive. I feel like creativity is often overlooked during such stressful times but is something that can help release stress and provide distractions from wanting to constantly check social media or wind up in a black hole of television/streaming binges. No matter what you end up doing, however, always remember to treat yourself properly, care for your body, and also remember to be gentle with yourself when necessary. Even with this insanity going on in the world, you are worth it and deserve to feel comfort even and especially during the loneliest moments.

Thank you for submitting this! This is all very good advice. I’m glad that you’ve found several ways to make the pandemic easier for you to cope with, and I hope that this helps some of our followers as well. Take care.

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We’re welcoming asks and submissions about coping during the coronavirus pandemic with the hashtag #coping with coronavirus and dissociation. If you’d like to participate, send us an ask or submit a post! More details can be found here. For those who missed it, we also have a masterpost about coping techniques during the pandemic here.

The best thing about bravery is even a little is enough.

Beau Taplin

Try stuff. Put plants in your room even if you aren’t the best at caring for them. Attempt that dessert recipe even if it turns out ugly. Listen to that music you’ve been meaning to try for a while. The world is full of infinite sources of goodness and the best thing to do it to try and find as many as possible.

In this post I mentioned how, even in a good relationship with someone, I still question whether they’re going to reject me when I let them see things about myself. Even though I have no reason to think they would.

That’s part of how I differentiate normal, “reasonable” fears from disorder-y, “unreasonable” fears, now.

Is it connected to the real situation? Does it depend on actual facts, interactions, history? Or is it detached from all that -- “it exists no matter what’s actually happening,” “nothing that happens could make me feel confident and relaxed” -- is it an arbitrary fear.

And if it’s arbitrary? Then I know it’s not grounded in reality. I am feeling afraid because my mind tells me I should be afraid -- because of my mind, not because of the situation I’m in.

That could be an invalidating way to think, for some people. (People vary!! If it’s not useful for you, don’t feel bad for throwing it out!) But for me, it’s been very powerful. Because if the only “no” I have is from a fear that isn’t connected to the real, present situation, then I am actually free to choose whatever I want. Including trusting someone I love, and showing them the thing, and allowing myself to be seen and loved in return.

And that is, I think, what is allowing me to slowly, really heal. “Corrective experiences,” perhaps, to replace the ones that taught me to be afraid in the first place.

Levels of relationship, part 1

(Part of my ongoing series of posts on Avoidant Personality Disorder.)

I realized recently that I tend to try and categorize every relationship I form. Here’s how that breaks down.

Variables of a relationship

The quantity of time I spend feeling safe vs. scared with them

Past evidence of them being judgmental or trustworthy

How possible intimate connection seems

How rewarding intimate connection seems

From those variables, we get groups like this.

“Scary” person:

someone I usually feel frightened around

they’ve shown frightening behavior: they’ve treated me or others negatively in the past (acting critical, judgmental, rejecting, or cruel)

Intimacy is impossible.

I will never choose to be vulnerable with them, for any reason.

“Friendly” person:

someone I feel comfortable around

who has NOT shown frightening behavior

Intimacy is possible, but even if I achieved it, I think it has a very low chance of turning out well.

I could choose to be vulnerable with them, but I usually won’t, because it’s not worth the risk.

“Safe” person:

someone I feel comfortable around

who has shown trustworthy behavior in the past: I have been vulnerable with them, and they responded in a kind, supportive, accepting way

Intimacy is definitely possible, and I think it’s likely to have a positive result: they’ll probably be kind and supportive again.

I will probably choose to be vulnerable with them as often as possible.

It’s not this clear-cut or this conscious in real life. But looking at the patterns in my relationships, that tends to be how it divides. When I’m with some people, I feel really, shockingly good; with others, I feel okay; and with others, I feel really bad/afraid.

Who goes where?

For me, I assume most people are “friendly.” Acquaintances who have never frightened me go here. Strangers go here -- for me -- because why would they bother judging me? What are they judging me against?

People who are abusive or who violate my boundaries go in “scary,” of course. But, for me, so do people who are just really opinionated or blunt, because I have such a low tolerance for conflict and hostility. (People vary! Your criteria for “scary/unsafe” or any other group might be totally different, and that’s okay.)

The rarest group is “safe” people.

Because finding someone who’s basically never frightened me, who I’ve risked being open with, and who responded to me in the exact right way to put me at ease and make me feel heard and accepted -- well, that just doesn’t happen very often.

For me, the chances are better if they’re naturally mild and considerate people. And the chances are really good if they genuinely like me.

For more about safe people, you can read part 2 here.